E85Forum.com

EthanAll · Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 10 Location: Colorado, USA

New guy here. I live in northern Colorado.

I have little-to-no automotive knowledge/experience/ability but, at 56 y.o., I have a LOT of enthusiasm and excitement for e85.

I just wanted to introduce myself and say Thanks for being here. I have read many posts over the last few days and look forward to learning and contributing if/when I have anything to offer!

Steve

hotrod · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 812 Location: Colorado

Welcome to the board!

I am sure you will find that you can contribute everyone knows something others do not. By the way I am older than you are so don't let that bother you. Wink

larry

EthanAll · Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 10 Location: Colorado, USA

Thanks, Larry!

My main challenge a the moment is trying to figure out where to get e85!? It's not avail here in Estes, at least not that I'm aware of. I believe some is avail in Lyons, at Diamond Shamrock, but I pretty much stay in town, getting out of here maybe once a month, if that.

My main vehicle is a '96 Ram 2500 5.9L 4 x 4.

Small-scale production sounds interesting, but a bit out of reach at the moment. Possibly some type of bulk purchasing arrangement, if I could get more folks interested. I'm pretty new to it all, as I mentioned, but time will tell....

Steve

hotrod · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 812 Location: Colorado

When I first started experimenting with E85 the nearest station to me was 20 miles away making it a 40 mile round trip. I would try to tie a trip down there into other "errands".

I would fill the tank with E85 and 4, Jerry cans of 5 gallons each. I would drive the fuel in the gas tank down to where I knew it would hold 5 gallons and top off in the driveway with one of the Jerry cans until I emptied them. Then I would run the tank down almost empty and plan my trips to reach the E85 station on the bottom quarter of the fuel tank. I did that for months. It got old but it worked!

There are several stations in Longmont and now Boulder area, but I have not seen or bought fuel from that station you mention in Lyons. You might find a willing soul with a pickup truck that would be willing to pickup a drum of E85 as he makes planned trips down the hill for a small fee, or share the fuel with him. Lots of folks are coming up with "creative solutions" to many of these problems.

You might also start harassing one of the fuel sellers in Estes to become the first and only out let for tourists who have FFV's and come up there in the summer to visit RMNP.

If you have a Western Convenience store in Estes start their they are one of the big movers in getting new E85 pumps in.

Larry

Thumpin455 · Joined: 04 Oct 2008 Posts: 220

If you have some space to work in, and decide you want to go into production of your own fuel just let me know. I can point you in the direction to get started. Smile

Right now it is 32 miles to the nearest station with E85 here, and it isnt in the direction we normally travel. Thats why I am working on my own source rather than buying it. Most people around here dont want anything to do with it because they think it will cost them too much money so I dont expect more stations any time soon. Those of us who are interested in it are also making our own or splash mixing because they live closer to the station.
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EthanAll · Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 10 Location: Colorado, USA

Thank you both for the great replies!

Don't know how he is viewed in the "industry" (whatever that is!?), but I have just finished my first read-through of Blume's "Alcohol Can Be A Gas." He paints some very achievable scenarios for small-scale production, and also dispels many myths I had previously been operating under (assuming his take on it all is accurate).

I also have his DVD of the same name (which I could loan out, if anyone is interested). His material is what really sparked (no pun) my current interest! I got the book through inter-library loan, so I am going to purchase my own copy in the next couple of weeks, as I already returned it to the library.

Anyway, assuming generally reliable info from him, I really "got it" as to the potential reasons and possibilities, on many different fronts, of using alcohol as a fuel. But this all transpired in the last week or so. That is why I am so enthusiastic to find this board, and see the potential for learning more and for feeding off of others' experiences and knowledge.

As I mentioned in my introduction, my mechanical knowledge and aptitude is really pretty weak. I am hoping to find a way to tap into the "E85 scene," so that I can change things for myself, as well as for anyone else I can help out.

The possibility of (as a first step) forming a local group of like-minded folks is where I plan on putting my efforts initially (in addition to finding a way to regularly test my pickup with E85)! Maybe a bulk buying club/co-op? Any current producers/suppliers in northern Colorado, I wonder?

Steve

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 567 Location: Central Wisconsin

Welcome Steve- you dont have to wait or rely on mechanical skills to get started. What most do not know that nearly every OBD 2 computer as is in your '96 Ram can handle up to at least 30% without any modifications. That is because the fuel system and computer can easily compensate to that level. To go beyond 30% without mods is highly variable by vehicle. I think the upper limit w/o mods for my Saab (turbo) is 35-40% which would set a code above that level. Most of my other non-FFV's unmodified have seen up to 60% ethanol at times w/o throwing a code (check engine light). To run full E85 straight most vehicles will need some modification or after market kit.

hotrod · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 812 Location: Colorado

EthanAll · Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 10 Location: Colorado, USA

Yes, the politics got in the way of the message here and there, although I did agree with SOME of it, especially "MegaOilron" and their ulterior motives.

"Amen" to the hippy back-to-the-landers!! Actually, I think that is part of the reason I am getting interested in ethanol. I spent a lot of time in sales and retail over the years. Now I am "circling" back around to some of the things I used to be interested in, but never took time to explore personally (I did read a lot of M.E.N. magazines, but never put much of it to use)....like self-sufficiency....alternative fuels and vehicles (I have an electric bike, too)....

EthanAll · Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 10 Location: Colorado, USA

FYI - I called the Diamond Shamrock this morning (that I thought sold e85)....NOT!!

Checked here http://www.e85refueling.com/ and it now looks like Boulder or Longmont will be "closest" (35-40 miles each way, for those not familiar with where I am).

Thanks to all....Happy 4th!!!

Steve

Gran Touring Labs · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 129

Can country folk buy straight from a rig? My aunt and uncle in the Dakotas have a 500 gallon fuel tank on their land up north, but I never got around to asking how they buy the fuel or if it comes by a tanker of some size.
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EthanAll · Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 10 Location: Colorado, USA

GTL - that's my main question at the moment. I am scouring everything I can online right now, searching to see if there is a way to buy in bulk (for my individual use, and for others in the community).

The town I live in is approx 10,000 pop. We have 3 MILLION visitors yearly, and I cannot believe there is not a need for e85 for many of their vehicles too (FFVs).

I am hoping to find a farmer-owned production facility or co-op of some sort. I'd like to directly support them, if possible, instead of buying a few links down the chain, from a distributor or something.....

Steve

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 567 Location: Central Wisconsin

Steve- maybe the old hippies down in Ward brew up some Laughing

Ah the're nice- they gave us water when we needed it Cool

It is unlikely you will find bulk distribution feasible. The problem is with tank ownership and distribution costs being nearly the same for 400 gal delivered as distribution costs for 8000 gallon-- this will cause even a poorly priced E85 station to look good as a rule.

I think you are likely at square 1-- pressing several station owners in your home town to put it in while in the meantime buying some portable cans (or if you have a pickup and a DOT type mounted 110 gal transfer tank) and then doing your own mid-level blends on unmodified cars until you either can make your own booze or a station puts it in.

EthanAll · Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 10 Location: Colorado, USA

OK...how's this for a pipe dream??

MacGregor Ranch, here in Estes, has 2,000 acres just on the north side of town. There only farming use of that much land is for some hay production (for a small herd of maybe 80 head of cattle or so). They have several different "missions" in their operation, because the ranch was given to the organization that runs it many decades ago by Muriel MacGregor. Part of their mission is education, especially for kids.

Maybe I can convince them to start ethanol production (and grow their own feedstock!)!? They could use it for fueling the farm equipment and buildings, and sell excess to the community (and use by-products for their cattle feed).

They are continually looking for ways to bring in more revenue. I think they live on grants, investments, donations, etc.

They could also move toward sustainable (permaculture-based?) agriculture and become a model farm for others to emulate! Paid tours of the farm (to some of our 3 million visitors) could bring in more revenue....

OK, maybe not...but I'm still thinking along the lines of getting community-based and community-scaled operation(s), of one kind or another, going here...

Steve

EthanAll · Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 10 Location: Colorado, USA

FYI -

I ran across this web site of a Colorado company which appears (at first site) to be doing some interesting production:

http://www.purevisiontechnology.com/technology.html

I realize they are in a different "universe" than I am interested in, as far as production goes, but I think it is a unique, new approach because:

1. they are talking about "cellulosic" production, not just corn (one might think a farming region like Ft. Lupton would be only concerned with only corn-based fuel)

2. they separate the input into 3 streams (lignin, hemicellulose and cellulose)

3. they are thinking of other co-products coming out of production, other than ethanol. From their site: "PureVision’s unique biomass fractionation technology converts wood, energy crops and agricultural residues into biomaterials that can be used to produce practically anything made with fossil-based feedstocks including biofuels, biobased chemicals, composites, pulp and paper products and energy."

Steve