E85Forum.com

240sxguy · Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 10

I am seriously interested in running E85. I actually ran a tank of it last summer with minor fueling changes. I stayed out of boost but wanted to see what would happen.

This is an RB25DET with upgraded turbo etc.. laymans terms its a 2.5 liter inline 6 turbo.

At this point, my fuel system is very adequate to run this fuel short of adding a second 255lph pump. My one huge concern is variations in ethanol content.

How do I deal with this? I know it can vary from station to station... is my best bet to do a tune on E85 and hope all my fuel is higher than 85% when I refuel?

Thanks guys, this is a lingering question for me.

Evan

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 567 Location: Central Wisconsin

Evan,
- where are you geographically? (so i know the blends for your area and duration)
- what are you trying to do with this- racing or street? (street non-performance just let the normal O2 sensor detect & ECU adjust)
- If race- what are you tuning with and what are you monitoring?
- you really should not get E85 over 83% to 85% alcohol, depending on season and locale you could get E60 however. Thus the question comes back to you with; If you tune for 85% ethanol- will your tuning software and monitoring/adjustment be able to pull out fuel for let's say an E76?

skiracer · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:46 pm Post subject:

I got one of these ethanol gauges installed in my car:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsWZVrdpSRI

Note, i've seen plenty of Evo's Walbro 255Lph pumps not being adequate when pushing 500WHP on E85. When they reach around 500WHPish, they usually move to a twin Walbro setup.
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'06 Evo IX Stage 1 by RRE,Walbro 255lph fuel pump,RC Engineering1000cc Injectors, AVO exhaust,RRE flash, (325whp @ 22PSI 91 octane, 353whp @ 25psi on 100 octane, 383whp @30psi on E85),Zeitronix wideband/Ethanol Content Analyzer, Defi gauges

240sxguy · Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 10

Madison, Wi.

I want to run it on the street and at the track...

I actually already have a FF sensor I can use with the zeitronix unit... it is fine that you can see your percentage of booze, but I don't want to mess around with compensating for it at every fillup.

I am running an apexi power FC, which is essentially a standalone based on a factory ECU. Can it compensate for big swings in alcohol? Maybe not... I will need a second pump for sure. I suppose I could do a mild tune on E85 and see how it goes.

My real concern here is WOT type stuff... I would hate to fuel up and blow a hole in a piston because the fuel wasn't what I thought it was. I plan on running pumpgas in the fall/winter (during the E70 season). I mean, from a tuning standpoint is 2% alcohol variation going to really matter?

Thanks guys - Evan

skiracer · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:40 pm Post subject:

Just make sure you're not tuned on the ragged edge. If the ethanol % is lower than you expected, i simply just turn down the boost a tad and go on my way.
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'06 Evo IX Stage 1 by RRE,Walbro 255lph fuel pump,RC Engineering1000cc Injectors, AVO exhaust,RRE flash, (325whp @ 22PSI 91 octane, 353whp @ 25psi on 100 octane, 383whp @30psi on E85),Zeitronix wideband/Ethanol Content Analyzer, Defi gauges

240sxguy · Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 10

I do have a methanol injection setup installed as well, although I had not planned on using it.

Evan

skiracer · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject:

E85 > Meth Twisted Evil

Time to sell the meth kit?
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'06 Evo IX Stage 1 by RRE,Walbro 255lph fuel pump,RC Engineering1000cc Injectors, AVO exhaust,RRE flash, (325whp @ 22PSI 91 octane, 353whp @ 25psi on 100 octane, 383whp @30psi on E85),Zeitronix wideband/Ethanol Content Analyzer, Defi gauges

240sxguy · Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 10

skiracer · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:41 pm Post subject:

Reason why i don't like Meth is that there's too many gizmo's & stuff that could "possibly" fail and if it does and you don't have the proper failsafes, KABOOM. Last Mitsu meet i went to, they had a Mitsu 3000GT on meth running on the dyno. They cranked the boost up to 35psi. During the dyno pull, one of the meth hoses popped off. Then before anyone realized anything went wrong, engine went kaboom.

Plus, with Meth injection you're injecting a small % of alcohol into the engine. Whereas with E85 you're constantly injecting alcohol into the engine.

My tuner whom has tuned both types of systems says the E85 will make more power and run more timing compared to a meth kit.

Walbro shouldn't cost anymore than $100ish ...
_________________
'06 Evo IX Stage 1 by RRE,Walbro 255lph fuel pump,RC Engineering1000cc Injectors, AVO exhaust,RRE flash, (325whp @ 22PSI 91 octane, 353whp @ 25psi on 100 octane, 383whp @30psi on E85),Zeitronix wideband/Ethanol Content Analyzer, Defi gauges

240sxguy · Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 10

Yeah, I know its like another 100 for a pump. Plumbing it etc.. and doing the wiring is what I dread.

The meth kit isn't hurting anything (fully installed) but I suppose Ill put it up for sale local and see if I get any bites. I really think I prefer to play with E85 since I can get it locally.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Evan

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 567 Location: Central Wisconsin

Evan- you are just south of me. Looks like you have a handle on it- E70 winter, E76-78 spring, and of course E85 summer. Right now, being a changover month you will find E70-E78 out there.

When do you start the racing season and when do you end?

Can you store a known blend for the season- at least for race events where you need the WOT tune dialed in for open loop?

Will the station you buy from provide you the exact blend info on the date you want to pick it up. (for instance- I know right now what % is in each store's tank).

I do not know enough about your setup to be much help but would agree that if you tune for 83-85% (83% is the highest alcohol content E85 should be in the summer) and pull out some boost below that you should be fine other than running a bit rich if you do not correct fuel maps for higher % gasoline.

240sxguy · Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 10

hotrod · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 812 Location: Colorado

For any sort of sensible daily driver, it does not matter if you are running E70 or E85. As long as you are not running super high compression ratios in NA --- say 12.5 and above or high boost in a turbo setup say greater than 25 psi, you should not be able to make it detonate on a good tune, regardless of which blend you are using.

If it is a serious street strip car that you are pushing hard, then yes you might want to worry about it, at least for consistency at the track. As the fuel blend drops from E85 to E70 if you make no changes in the tune, the AFR goes rich so the shift is in a safe direction, the mixture will richen up as you go to the winter blend. If you have a safe tune on E85 on a typical street car it won't make a lot of difference other than ease of cold starting.

At least that is my experience.

Full E85 will support 35-42 psi of boost on a turbocharged 4G63, unless you are running that sort of setup, or tuning dangerously lean it is no big deal.

I can not tell any significant performance variation between winter and summer blend on the same tune under similar weather conditions.

Larry

240sxguy · Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 10

skiracer · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject:

When you say track, do u mean 1/4 mile or road course or drifting? If roadcourse or drifting, you should have a more conservative tune compared to a strip/street setup.
_________________
'06 Evo IX Stage 1 by RRE,Walbro 255lph fuel pump,RC Engineering1000cc Injectors, AVO exhaust,RRE flash, (325whp @ 22PSI 91 octane, 353whp @ 25psi on 100 octane, 383whp @30psi on E85),Zeitronix wideband/Ethanol Content Analyzer, Defi gauges